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Post by ragnar on Feb 2, 2019 9:58:32 GMT 1
Have we considered adding a small % xp boost to the ‘no dropping items on death’ boost? May be nice to get brand new players to the game playing as often as possible for that first week/ten days for fear of missing out on said increased xp %
I know we’ve suggested ways to make the current ‘no drop items’ boost very obvious on another post and this could go hand in hand. Maybe they could received an automated in game message from the mayor/an NPC?
Just another thought - have we considered making them start on the boat? Maybe that’s a bit evil of me but do we think it would offer an incentive to get off the boat or do we think it might just put them off altogether? 😂 we could add a few NPCs on there with basic game guides similar to what we have in capital now but with lower risk?
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Post by anthothema on Feb 2, 2019 10:05:31 GMT 1
Personally I don't agree with the xp boost as it would seem rather unfair to those who started without the xp boost. But that's just my opinion
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Post by ragnar on Feb 2, 2019 10:54:30 GMT 1
I figured someone would say that - it depends on your goals for the game I’d guess. I’d much prefer a larger and more competitive player base as opposed to a huge gap and mountain to climb for newer players. Those who created earlier will still have an advantage - it’s just how big do you want that advantage to become? And we're not taking about a 500% permanent boost here - just a small incentive to retain and encourage those new players.
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Danzig
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Post by Danzig on Feb 4, 2019 18:37:30 GMT 1
I second the consideration for a noob exp boost. To be honest I wouldn't care if new players caught my weapon skill within a couple weeks of playing. I think there should always be a means for new players to quickly catch up in main skill to established players. (A boost similar to the one made for new players in TPS, but possibly better.) We might not exactly be at a stage in development where that is necessary, but it should be looked into and planned for. It will certainly be the defining factor in whether or not new players continue to play once the game begins to take off. Personally I don't agree with the xp boost as it would seem rather unfair to those who started without the xp boost. But that's just my opinion This is the exact mentality that led to the stagnation of TPS. Older players thinking that because it was hard for them, it should be equally hard for all that follow. This mentality is counter to...well....everything history has taught us. Think about it: Your ancestors had to live in squalor and work their hands bloody. They had to hunt their own food and find ways to not die in when it got cold. They had to find sources of water and sustenance in extreme conditions, and had to suffer eating and dying from the poisonous plants and venomous creatures we know about today. The lessons they learned made it so you don't have to do these things. It made life easier for you so that you can live a nice happy and hopefully long life in relative comfort (at least in comparison to what they endured) Apply this same mentality to an exp boost. Our characters are discovering, they are enduring hardship so that those who follow us don't have to (as much at least). An exp boost, and by that I mean a significant boost that will allow them to catch up to current players, and continuing that as a trend will only benefit this game, and allow our community to grow and prosper as time continues. |
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Post by azathoth on Feb 4, 2019 20:38:51 GMT 1
I think we can all agree that a boost could be unfair if not balanced properly. If a person starting in 3 months is able to catch up to my skill in 3 days i don't think anyone would approve of that scenario. So the question is where does the balance lie?
I am not opposed to making it easy for beginners to catch up, I just feel like the soft cap already accomplishes that. It will only take a new player ~3 months to hit the soft cap, then they will be about equal to the strongest players. No one is even at the soft cap yet, doesn't it seem hasty to be discussing an extra early player boost?
Finally, let's be frank. If it only takes 2 weeks to catch up with the strongest people, the game will quickly become a bit boring. Training is kind of a central component of this game; there's not currently a ton of content beyond it.
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Danzig
Junior Member
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Post by Danzig on Feb 4, 2019 21:24:53 GMT 1
No one is even at the soft cap yet, doesn't it seem hasty to be discussing an extra early player boost? Absolutely not, it is not too early to discuss anything relating to the game moving forward. Quite the contrary, discussions like this need to happen early. Do you always only prepare for potential problems as they are happening? So what you are saying is that more players at a competitive level is boring? I don't know if you played TPS, but I am sure anyone here that did can tell you that the age of TPS that was the most active, the most exciting, and bar none the funnest was when the majority of the population was at a similar skill. This scenario happened twice to my memory. Once when the game first started, which saw many active PK and anti-PK groups...and again a couple years after the dark races were released...say...2005-2009ish? something like that. This is when a vast majority of active players on both sides were equal in skill. More raids, more group chat, more coordination, more activity, more roleplay. If you think what makes a game like this fun is being in a league of your own, just ask the old TPS players how that fared for them in recent years. When nobody left cap, and the fights they did get were without any competition. When you could walk for days or weeks and not find a single other player. |
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Post by azathoth on Feb 4, 2019 23:46:05 GMT 1
"Do you always only prepare for potential problems as they are happening?"
"So what you are saying is that more players at a competitive level is boring?"
Hey friendo. Don't imply I'm shortsighted. Don't put words in my mouth.
Until a gap in player strength is real there will not be enough information to have a detailed discussion about exp boosts. There will be no numbers, there will be no problem to solve. Until then the furthest this discussion can go is: in the future we may need to give new players an exp boost. Okay, we got there.
I started playing tps around the time you are talking about. When 400 skill put you in the upper echelon. My opinion is not that I needed an exp boost back then so I could get to 400 quicker, but that the skill cap and training grounds shouldn't have boosted everyone who was at 400 back when I started up to 700+. Essentially: soft caps and hard caps. With the slow mvt regen rate in Agonia, and the dangerous mobs (no easy training grounds that poop out runes non-stop), I believe that a soft cap already accomplishes a lot to lessen the head-start of early players.
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Danzig
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Post by Danzig on Feb 5, 2019 0:35:37 GMT 1
You and I just disagree, apparently. No problem there. In my opinion an increase in new player exp should be a constant. It should not be considered only when it is absolutely needed. It should start after the first month (we have reached that) and new chars should get a boost relative to the point that the game is at...so the value of the exp boost simply changes as time goes along.
This would not only be good for new players, but players who created a month ago and now want to make a new character but feel stuck due to having underwent the grind to get where they are currently. It would also allow both new and current players to test different races to actually find their niche.
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Post by azathoth on Feb 5, 2019 0:48:27 GMT 1
Why not have everyone just start at the hardcap?
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Post by Jolly on Feb 15, 2019 15:48:17 GMT 1
the new player boost could be starting with a weapon at 80, and maybe 20 tailoring, stoneworking, and woodworking for all tribes, and 40 seeking and fleeing. unless current tribe is better. And for evo points who cares if they start with 50 evo let them.
That would be a newbie boost to help get them started able to train with other people and flee from mobs too hard and try and complete the first 4 quest and start them in the begenning.
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Post by anthothema on Mar 6, 2019 15:23:44 GMT 1
I am not opposed to making it easy for beginners to catch up, I just feel like the soft cap already accomplishes that. It will only take a new player ~3 months to hit the soft cap, then they will be about equal to the strongest players. No one is even at the soft cap yet, doesn't it seem hasty to be discussing an extra early player boost? Hmmm... should we discuss this further  |
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Post by Belouch on Mar 6, 2019 16:45:14 GMT 1
Keep in mind there is already some sort of inherent newbie boost.
You guys started on an unknown island, with leather armors.
Newbies start on an island where all the train spots have already been mapped, quest walkthrough are already there, and they pretty much start with a Suede leather armor and a round shield straight away. All that makes a huge difference already.
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Post by ragnar on Mar 16, 2019 12:36:55 GMT 1
Revisiting this after a discord discussion.
The boost should be to close the gap between new players and those that created at the start. We need to look at it as a measure of time as opposed to skill cap.
New player A may get from 40-200 faster than old player B did when they created.
But old player B will have the exact same advantages- armours, knowledge, potions (including more stats so arguably even faster!) when training seconds whilst player A trains main. Therefore the gap would remain almost constant - wouldn’t it?
Yes the difference in power gained from evos isn’t as significant as main weapon skill but new player A will always be catching up x amount of months.
I know a few have discussed remaking but not wanting to for this exact reason. The skill cap does help but I really like the idea of a small xp boost for a set amount of time (similar to the no drop items on death boost).
Just to make it clear - I am happy with my race so I am not looking for personal gain.
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Post by anthothema on Mar 16, 2019 15:24:43 GMT 1
New player A may get from 40-200 faster than old player B did when they created. This part is true But old player B will have the exact same advantages- armours, knowledge, potions (including more stats so arguably even faster!) when training seconds whilst player A trains main. Therefore the gap would remain almost constant - wouldn’t it? ^^ This part? Partially only. I don't see how armours, knowledge and potions are an advantage. It isn't an advantage if you guys learnt how to share? |
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Danzig
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Post by Danzig on Mar 16, 2019 23:47:39 GMT 1
The concern really lies with what is more important to the player base/game.
Right now it is not a huge concern I suppose because we haven't started really pushing the game. There is a lot still being worked on and the aesthetic of the game (GUI) as well as many of the systems are still in development and will be for some time. It can be assumed that the reason new players aren't sticking around is mostly that, along with things being worked out to be more 'noob friendly', which does also tie into the GUI a little bit.
Having said that, once that is all set...the focus of those new players will shift. They will be concerned with how far they are behind, and how long it will take them to become competitive.
There will come a time where the more stubborn 'old' players have to decide what is more important to their game experience. Since after all the dedicated player base is what keeps the game going..that means old players, but the idea is to keep new players around long enough so they can become 'old' players.
I understand that it is a tough concept to get on board with...putting in all that time only to have a new player "catch up" in only a fraction of the time. But doesn't more players that are a challenge make the game that much more fun? doesn't having to plan large scale raids against full camps of players for swathes of territory sound more fun that 3v3 battles and skirmishes?
Old players will always have the edge in combat via Evolution stat differences....but since player main wep is the largest factor in being competitive, I truly think newer players not having to spend an extraordinary amount of time grinding to catch up once the main wep skill is like 600+ a matter of import.
Again..just something to consider.
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